The Quig Spot

Brilliant ^^

You are an idiot! C.S. Lewis was not bashing Atheism like Pullman was Christianity and/or the belief in God!

First of all, your sarcasm is hilarious. Seriously, there should be an award for getting that much into a single posting.

Second, to the anonymous wuss afraid to post his name...it is SARCASM. Geesh, get sense of humor. He was ranting about Christians, not C.S Lewis! The fact that Christians are making this a big deal. If a movie can be made about God, then one can be made about Atheism. It's called Free Speech, the same thing that allows this person to say what he wants in his own blog.

Ever notice its religion that starts wars, not atheists? Go ahead and practice what you want, I'M a tolerant person.

Your hipocrisy is truly impressive, it really has reach an amazing level. It seem you firmly believe Christians to be intolerable and close-minded, but the truly narrow-minded person here is you. Freedom of speech: it applies to atheist AND Christians alike. If The Golden Compass is allowed in theater then so should Narnia. As for whether to boycott or watch? Thats your choice. The ones I am feeling sorry for is your children.

Your hipocrisy is truly impressive, it really has reach an amazing level. It seem you firmly believe Christians to be intolerable and close-minded, but the truly narrow-minded person here is you. Freedom of speech: it applies to atheist AND Christians alike. If The Golden Compass is allowed in theater then so should Narnia. As for whether to boycott or watch? Thats your choice. The ones I am feeling sorry for is your children.

Though most people fail to see it, this is not about "a christian movie can be made, so an atheist movie can be too". That is not the reason christians are upset. Freedom of speech applies to both, but it is the intention behind the authors that makes the difference. Lewis wrote about a book on his belief, whether others agrees with him or not. Pullman wrote his book to purposely be anti-Narnia. According to interview sources, his goal is to kill God in children mind. His books are meant to kill God. He has openly claim to despise christianity, Lewis and Narnia.

Now, I am sure that no matter what your belief is, you would be offended if someone outright bashed it right on your face and calls your beliefs bullcrap. If so, you would hardly support this person's idea.

I won't claim to know what exactly christians thoughts are, but I believe they have reasonable logic behind the boycott. This is a man who loathes their belief, to the point of utmost intolerance, where he is willing to throw his efforts into childrens book, exploiting their "susceptabilities", in order to kill christianity. This is his agenda behind his work.

So it isn't hard to understand. Why would christians watch this movie and make more money and fame for Pullman?

Clearly quigles is the enlightlened one. The only reason athiest dislike christians are because they are intimidated. I understand religion can seem sketchy sometimes but that is because when anything is left to a human it will become corrupt, regardless of the cause. Have you noticed most athiest always seem very unhappy.

You can check this link for the real deal on this movie. I've been googling it for about an hour and this is the best I've found.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/god_in_the_dust/

Hilarious! Completely agree.

Methinks most everyone has missed the point of the article- and that just adds to the hilarity.

Oh, by the way Christianity: I wouldn't have even considered watching this fantasy film if it weren't for all the advertising you guys have been giving it.

Nice job!

"Ever notice its religion that starts wars, not atheists?"

Ever realize that atheism IS a religion? If you think that religion is the cause of the majority of wars, you really need a good history lesson. It's not Christians out there with bombs strapped to their chests.

Also, ever notice the general personality difference between the atheist and the Christian? Atheism suggests that theism blinds a human being with faith and covers up the facts, but the fact of the matter is it takes a hell of a lot more faith to believe that there is no God. You're leaping off of a tall bridge there.

I am an Atheist, love fantasy, will enjoy “Caspian” in cinema and after that I will go home as an Atheist. It’s exactly like to be a Christian who is bold enough to watch “The Golden Compass”. A movie can’t shake strong convictions, so you can’t use it to fight religion or atheism nor to brainwash someone. From a tale we can only learn those truths we are open for.
It is merely regrettable when the artistic substance of a great work of literature isn’t reflected in its film version. In this respect the Pullman tales have got more to lose than the Lewis’ books because they are much more substantial.
Those who try to prohibit books or movies that don’t agree with their ideology uncover themselves as enemies of mental freedom, as the Catholic League does. To imitate them would be a mistake. I’d prefer to brand the intolerance of Christian fundamentalists und to spread my documents all around the web. With their actions they deliver you with all arguments you need.

Gareth
gdavies0@hotmail.co.uk
Really enjoyed the post-I had the same thought myself when the Christians came out against The Golden Compass! Obviously, these are deep waters the depths of which won't be plumbed in these few lines from me, but I've got a couple of points.

1. I'm an atheist. To paraphrase Dawkins, I respect my neighbour's right to believe in whatever god he likes, but only in the same way as I respect his right to believe his wife is beautiful and his children are clever. In other words, as long as I can watch The Life of Brian, you can watch The Ten Commandments. And the 'anonymous' correspondent who said that atheism is a religion really does have his wires crossed-
that's a bit like saying a square is a kind of triangle. Isosceles, scalene and right-angled triangles are kinds of triangle, just as Islam, Judaism and Christianity are are kinds of religion. Atheism is as different from these as a square is from a triangle. My belief is that there is no intelligent creator, not that the intelligent creator is called Allah rather than Yahweh or whatever- that's a square peg, my friend, and it won't fit into a triangular hole however much violence you do it. And the anonymous correspondent was quite right that it's not Christians who are strapping bombs to their chests and blowing themselves up. That's Muslims, I think you'll find, not atheists. Christains would never do anything quite so misguided, murderous and ultimately stupid, would they? They'd never, for example, have an inquisition, or burn folk who disagreed with them, or attempt to wipe out the Cathars or the Catholics or the heathens or systematically abuse, mentally, physically and sexually, countless generations of children entrusted to their care.

By the way, about this 'atheists aren't happy' thing. I'm perfectly happy, thankyou- in fact I'm looking forward to my tea and perhaps a chat with the wife and then a good night's sleep. I'm not looking forward to Everlasting Rapture In The Bosom Of The Lord or whatever it's supposed to be, admittedly, but it's a reasonable kind of happiness and I'm, well, reasonably happy with it. More importantly, being happy doesn't make you right: in fact, I'm sorry to say, life is often about making the choice between being happy and being right. Choosing to be an atheists is one of the few occasions when you get to have both. I heartily recommend it. I mean, you have to give up believing in the afterlife but that's no worse than giving up believing in Santa really- as Mark Twain said, I'm not concerned about not existing after I die because I din't exist for countless millenia before my conception and it didn't inconvenience me in the least.

2. I'm a father. My kids liked the first Narnia film, but they liked The Golden Compass more. Not that that proves anything (I'm sure it's perfectly possible to make a fantastic movie based on Christian myths), I just wanted to let you know that I monitor what they watch in terms of sex (which I'm fine with as long as it's not explicit, abusive or an end in itself)and violence (which needs to be portrayed as the last resort, proportionate and without sadistic relish), but not in terms of ideas. They can think what they like- although if they start thinking anything I don't agree with they're going to get into an argument with their dad and they are probably going to lose...! That, I like to think, is what it means to be a liberal, responsible parent.

3. I'm an English teacher and I teach Northern Lights to 12 year olds. I've also read the whole Dark Materials series (which I'm pretty sure those who say that Pullman has an aggressive or deliberately propagandist agenda have not) and it is, in my view, the greatest fantasy series ever written. It is also immensely complex- far more so than the film (which had to, by the nature of the medium, simplify things) would suggest. In Northern Lights you can quite happily see the actions of Mrs. Coulter and the GOB as a heroic and tough-minded stand for the greater good and Lord Asriel's 'free thinking' and playing with the fundamental nature of things as Frankenstein-like and deeply dangerous. Pullman, of course, is no fan of organized religion- but the idea that his work is a cynical assault on the possibility of God or the supernatural or a higher power in the minds of children is at best woefully ingenuous and at worst demonizing propaganda: look, the story features incarnate 'souls' called daemons and other worlds, possibly other worlds containing a higher reality than our own. It strikes me that a Christian with half a brain could seize on a young mind primed with ideas like that and use them as a foundation to build an understanding of the Glory of the Lord or whatever it is those chaps believe.

So if a card-carrying atheist like me can take my kids to see 'The Lion, The Witch...', then why can't you Christian dads take your kids to see 'The Golden Compass'?

What are you afraid of, exactly?

Granted I'm as guilty as the next guy, but...

Why is it that when most atheists write they inevitably drop into a sarcastic tone? And why is it that Christians inevitably fail to pick up on the sarcasm? It's as though folks intentionally misunderstand each other to keep fresh fuel on the fire.

hi my name is joe and i am gareth's son. I believe wholy in what my father is saying but i have one complaint about what you are saying. It is not a comment like "ooooooooh you will be forever damned" or any of that rubbish because i am an atheist as well. I can't see why you can't just look at it as a damned good story. Sure it's an obvious allegory but it's a good one!!! I enjoyed the Golden Compass (northen lights) for such reasons as it is not a fairy story like narnia and because it has a 1 tonne, armoured bear in it!!! Who wouldn't want that? I don't want any christian coming up to me now and saying aren't you bored having no god to pray to? No. Look outside. There are trees and life out there. Do you think they are praying to any god? Hell no. Don't they look happy enough? And if god does exist then he made a right cock up of making humans didn't he? I mean our brain is in a thin layer of bone and what's more it is really spikey on the inside. You only have to turn your head too quickly and you get brain damage!!!!! I would want my brain in my chest, proctected by a load of organs! Then Jesus says worship me!!!!!! Hold up. You said all people are equal and you're saying worship me? That makes Jesus and God, therefore, a hippocrit! I am not worshipping a hippocrit! Another mistake god made was the thorns on roses. In the book the little prince he says "whats the point of having thorns if there gonna get munched by sheep anyhow?" And whats the point in wasps? They don't do anything, the're not beutiful and they sting you. Yeah nice one "almighty"! I am not having a go at christians at all, I fully respect them but they are following something that isn't there!!!!! Whats the point? Anyhoo back to my origional point. Narnia is a fantastic book and so is the whole series ,though it dies off at the end. In todays world the movies that people will remember have a lot of action in them, hence Golden Compass. Narnia will forever exist in people's minds, because it is an allegory of the easter story. So i say good post but just think of it as a book and not a way to demonize christians.
from joe

ojjy123@hotmail.co.uk

Haha that is really funny. I am religious myself but I can never understand why most parents don't let their children even KNOW about other options--let alone see them in a fantasy setting. God created free will for a REASON. You drew a really good comparison between athiests viewing christian entertainment as just that-entertainment, while christian parents think that Harry Potter and the Golden Compass are in league with the devil.

Unless you were serious :). Then you're still cool.

For the love of God, (or for the love of the lack of god, whatever) is it so hard to use grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and spell check? If you really want people to take you seriously, spend thirty seconds of your precious time ensuring that your post makes you look "smarter than a fifth grader"!
Moving on.... I AM A CHRISTIAN. I love the Chronicles of Narnia. I have read the books, seen the film (looking forward to 'Caspian'), and enjoyed them. Why? Because Narnia condemns SINNERS, muah-ha-ha-hah! Not.
I have also read the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy, which begins with 'The Golden Compass', continues through 'The Subtle Knife', and ends with 'The Amber Spyglass'. (Or vice versa with 'Spyglass' and 'Knife', I don't remember.) I enjoyed them because I like good books, and the opinions and/or intents of the author matter to me not at all. I can't wait to seen 'Compass' in theaters, and will not pass judgment on it until I have.
Incidentally, I also enjoy all things Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and other fantasy genre productions. I read. I watch. I have fun doing it. That's the point, isn't it?

Lady Dalana- I'm not entirely sure what 'Fifth Grade' is (I'm English, you see) but if your comment about grammar, spelling, punctuation and capitalization was aimed at Joe's post (which I assume it was seeing as the succeeding post looked pretty darned accurate to me)I think it only fair to tell you that he's 11 years old. That's Year 6 over here-probably your Sixth Grade.

A big thanks to the author of this post and commentators: Gareth and Joe. Your thoughts and ideas are very enlightening. And your arguments are very reasonable and honest, I enjoyed reading yours the most - Audrey

Deffinition of religion according to dictionary.com:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

So yes, atheism can be and is a religion. Not the most common idea most people have about what religion is, but religion none the less.

To what has been said about atheists not being as happy, I believe that to be true. It was said earlier that atheists too can be happy, yes but I do not believe as much as a true Christian living by faith.
As a Christian I (and all born again christians) believe the God will always work for the greatest good. Yes getting a promotion can give you more money, but sometimes what will last longer is the lessons learned from getting fired (learning to rely on God and trust Him, mabey something better is coming, learning to deal). Also we believe that we are to give all stress, anxiety, worry, and burdens to God, since he works for our good and is all powerful it does us no good to worry about it. It takes the pressure off of us. When you believe there is no god, all the pressure is on you.

To the difference in the intent in the Golden Compass and Narnia, i agree with Greg. Narnia simply presents a view of Christianity, the golden compass literally kills god. Narnia is neutral in terms of offense and defense, the golden compass is on the offense, thus being of aggressive intent. This brings me to my next point of war.

Religion can be at the start of war, but not always. I do see atheists starting wars, Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin. In fact one of the basic underlying principles of evolution can and is sometimes the start of war. survival of the fittest, I'm sure yall have heard this before but it is the belief that only the strongest will survive. Some people (I will use Hitler as an example) have taken this to mean that some races within the human species are superior (and to those of evolution this would make sense, and no, I am not saying that all atheists are racist, in fact not many are), they, like Hitler, wanted to spread and expand what he saw as the superior race of humans (the Aryans) and destroy the weaker races (mostly the Jews). And true Christianity will never be the start of a war (I say this because I know that many of you would bring up the crusades, but the crusades were from twisted philosophy and not true Christianity, and had more politics behind it and personal agendas than religion)other religions may be sources of war, but true christianity will never be, the greatest commandment is love, and it is hard to skew that to the point of war.

to the point of

Hey guys, it's Joe again and I'm 14 now! How time flies. The previous is certainly an interesting point and certainly one to think on, but if we broaden this further into other religion, if you look at it, a lot of different beliefs have started wars off, not simply those of Christians. I'm not having a go at the Christians. I'm having a go at all religions, including the Jews and Muslims and if that makes me not pc enough then so be it. Wars between different faiths have been on going since the first nutcase thought of religion and if you are trying to tell me that the crusades, a time in which Christians fought Muslims, wasn't a holy war then you need read on you're history. Hope my grammer was good enough. ;)